Why Do You Think?

[Anissa T]

Okay, I got to thinking. Why do you think they kept a civilian in charge of the Atlantis program?

General Hammond had taken charge of SG1 all this time. So, why for this project a civilian and not military personnel.

Now, I know Dr. Weir has good military personnel to advise her. At one point she even had a higher ranking, more experienced person leading the military team.

But, why the change on this show? Do you think it's to see how the audience would react to that? Do you think it's to see if there could be more development of the position/character, storyline?

Really, I think it would have worked either way, but I was just curious about this point.

[Colonel Carter]

To annoy us with politics. :p I think they did it to make more political type statements. :rolleyes

[Anissa T]

How so?

[Colonel Carter]

Well with SG-1 you have the military running the operations. Politics was and is involved, but more at a distance. General Hammond always dealt with the politics of it, talking to the president and what not. Occassionally SG-1 would see the politics in action, but were never directly involved with it and the show's main focus wasn't on it. Essentially the show focuses around Jack, Daniel, Sam, and Teal'c who are in a military environment which means following command authority without question. Well, they could always question Jack, but ultimately, his word was the final authority that could end any debate.

Now with Atlantis, Dr. Weir is in command, but she is not military. I'm kind of confused because it seems like the military put her in that position, in which case that's not good when the military isn't running things because the people would be free to vote who they wanted to be in charge. Essentially I could see them voting her out, though the writers probably wouldn't do that. The fact that this is not military command but a civillian operation is going to bring politics to the forefront whereas in SG-1, they were more in the background.

[Anissa T]

Okay, I get what your saying. But in all honesty I cannot remember whether Atlantis is a civilian project involving military personnel or a military project involving civilians. I don't think it matters. And frankly, that episode where Dr. Weir was being questioned (and this is just personal opinion) that person should have listened to her or taken the conversation behind closed doors. But that's just me. I think I know what the writers were getting at though.

But, my confusion comes in when trying to figure out whether or not they had him question her because she was civilian. Or, did they question her because she was a woman?

I've experienced problems with both and they are equally viable situations for Dr. Weir.

Hmmm.........

[Colonel Carter]

But, my confusion comes in when trying to figure out whether or not they had him question her because she was civilian. Or, did they question her because she was a woman?
Maybe both? The guy did seem a bit chauvanist. (sp?) And I wonder if he would talk that way to a man. I know a guy, actually, who talks very rudely to women, but talks to other men with more respect. The guy is a total jerk, he thinks it's okay to be verbally abusive towards women. But if he deals with another man, he isn't like that. I'm not sure why except perhaps he deals with feelings of inferiority and thinks of women as being weaker so he can show power over them. I don't know. So that guy might be like that. I wonder how he would have reacted if Major Shepperd did what Dr. Weir did to him.

It does seem to me that at least one of his female co-workers gave a look of disgust towards him which makes me think that his co-workers don't even like him. He did act like a stuck-up, egotystical, self-righteous know-it-all and those types generally have trouble relating with people.

I think Atantis would have more a military feel if the head military guy to start with wasn't killed off in the premiere. He was definately gun-ho. He did not like Dr. Weir being put in charge, he definitely thought the military should be running things. Taking him out put Shepperd in charge and he's very different and clearly has no problem with a civilian being in command.

I don't know, I didn't understand how she got to be in charge of Stargate Command for awhile in SG-1. Of course ultimately, the military does answer to and serve civilian authority. The president, though given the title of Commander in Chief, is a civilian. And he's put in office by the general society of the country.

[Anissa T]

Well, I know Dr. Weir was put there by the President himself. Why, I'm not totally sure. He says her qualifications, but said clearly a civilian should be keeping an eye on things to ensure the military wasn't doing things they shouldn't be. He wanted her to be his eyes and ears at the SGC. But, I'm not sure, he may have (at the time the show aired) have had other motives.

But, honestly, I was really suprised that they moved her along with the Atlantis program.


Maybe both? The guy did seem a bit chauvanist. (sp?) And I wonder if he would talk that way to a man.

That reminds me of "48 Hours" and how Dr. McKay was always talking lip to Sam. I mean, totally talking down to her. Now, he's on Atlantis. Hmmm....Did they bring him back from Russia for that? LOL!

I guess we'll just have to keep watching.

[Cwren]

I think the answer lies more in the "behind the scenes of the spinoff" logic than the "in front of the camera" plot logic. Weir is meant to be different from Gen. Hammond, and now Jack, so as to avoid direct comparison between the spinoff series and the original.

My personal thoughts: being former military myself, I don't feel that a civilian administrator can be as effective at maintaining order as would a military leader. This is simple. A civilian, even in authority, is at least a little intimidated by the uniform and mannerisms of a military officer, just as they would be a Police officer or other uniformed authority figure. It is what is called "the color of authority". Another way to describe it is that feeling you get when the Highway Patrol officer pulls you over and steps up to your car window. You might know logically that he is a public servant and works for you , the taxpayer, but you still feel intimidated.

On the other hand, it does not work that way the other way around. Most military types are not intimidated by a civilian authority figure, no matter what position they hold. Even though the military is technically answerable to civilian authority, most military people tend to think that civilian ways of doing things are ineffective, and to be tolerated as a necessity, rather than preferred. We are taught to be that way in basic training when we are made to abandon our haphazard civilian ways in favor of the highly disciplined and organized military way of doing everything.

Even within the military branches, there are differing levels of percieved closeness to civilian status, or "gung ho-ness". Ask anyone in the military and they will most likely agree that the Marines are the most military, followed by the Army, Navy, then the Airforce and Coast Guard follow along with National Guard.

The original ranking officer on Atlantis mission was a Marine, but he was killed. Shepherd is an Air Force person, but also a pilot, which tends to think of themselves as sort of above any real military discipline, similar to the doctors on MASH. As such, Shepherd probably sees himself as "almost civilian" anyhow, as far as real authority and Gung Ho-ness is concerned.

Now the real question for speculation is how does the Lt. serving under him, who is a hard charging Marine, how does he feel about taking orders from some Air Force flyboy who barely seems to have a disciplined bone in his body? ;)

[Colonel Carter]

This is simple. A civilian, even in authority, is at least a little intimidated by the uniform and mannerisms of a military officer, just as they would be a Police officer or other uniformed authority figure.
Have you watched "COPS?" :b

Except that if this is someone like the President of the United States, she would essentially be Commander-In-Chief thus no reason to be intimidated. Actually, I think it boils down to personality. I don't see any reason for Weir to feel intimidated by John. Actually, I think the only person she's really felt intimidated by was that bozo scientist in that one episode.

I think it would have been simpler to have a military person be in charge. But the American ideal is not to be a military run country. It makes sense for them to try and establish in effect their own democracy. Although Weir wasn't elected as far as I'm aware, but put there by military. So it's just kinda weird. I think. Kinda like the idea that Thor could make this facial expression. :thor

[Colonel Carter]

I do not remember the shows running up to Atlantis, but do you think the President had her go, but it wasn't mentioned? If that was the case technically she was installed by both military and civilian.

I kind of like a woman being in charge. I think it shows how American's have a changing attitude towards women being in charge.

I was just curious. It still works for me.

[Colonel Carter]

It depends on who is in charge. I could handle Sam Carter being in charge because I like her. I'm not sure about Weir yet. Although I think Shep is really the one in command. Besides, his name comes first in the credits.