I wonder...

[Angelica Constantine]

...if Universe nose dives (which I for-see it will)...Do you think they will bring back Atlantis?

I hope so. They better...:hmm:

Hmm, thoughts?:Eh:

[Anissa T]

Nope

[Robin K]

I agree AC, Universe is going to fall flat, because the base of Stargate fans that the suits are counting on aren't going to give them a third chance.

No, they won't bring Atlantis back, nor will they bring Stargate SG-1 back. They burned those bridges with the actors and the fans. We might see more movies for the two shows, however.

[Dracus]

...if Universe nose dives (which I for-see it will)...Do you think they will bring back Atlantis?

I hope so. They better...:hmm:

Hmm, thoughts?:Eh:

Nope. When they kill a show like that, its done for. Would be nice though :/


I agree AC, Universe is going to fall flat, because the base of Stargate fans that the suits are counting on aren't going to give them a third chance.

No, they won't bring Atlantis back, nor will they bring Stargate SG-1 back. They burned those bridges with the actors and the fans. We might see more movies for the two shows, however.

Well, Judging by the SG-1 movies... I dont think they will be that great.
Would be nice if they managed to get one of the latter movies to the theaters though : /

[Lemuria]

Well, Judging by the SG-1 movies... I dont think they will be that great. Would be nice if they managed to get one of the latter movies to the theaters though : /

I agree with Dracus completely. I was not that impress with the direct to video SG-1 movies. They were not bad and I did not feel like I wasted my money but I was not impressed.

It would be nice to see a good SG-1 or Atlantis movie in the theaters. They did it with Firefly when Serenity made it to theaters.

[Dracus]

I agree with Dracus completely. I was not that impress with the direct to video SG-1 movies. They were not bad and I did not feel like I wasted my money but I was not impressed.

It would be nice to see a good SG-1 or Atlantis movie in the theaters. They did it with Firefly when Serenity made it to theaters.

Oh, I meant overall for the SG-1 movies. The second one was OK. The first one was horrible... they just... -_-

[Robin K]

The first movie was horrible because it was nothing more than an extended episode, still dealing with the flippin' Ori and had that annoying Vala in it. Interesting to note, Vala was a Goa'uld for the majority of Continuum, and that movie did much better...had Ba'al, Vala...you know, Goa'uld. Fans liked it. Imagine that. (Rumor has it that Vala won't even be in the third movie. Gee, think the suits bought a freaking clue?)

[Angelica Constantine]

Bought a whole clue, no...

Part of one...maybe.

[brymstone]

if the suits at sci-fi/nbc aren't willing to put the movies in cinemas, says alot to me about their confidence in the shows.

[Dracus]

Well, the first one coulda been cool if the replicators had took over other ori ships instead, and then you had some crazy 3 way fight scenes.

But no. It was just bad.

[Wraithicator]

I like Vala, and I'm not afraid to say it. I LOVE Vala. She's hilarious. And I'm also not afraid to say that I LOVE the SG-1 movies - but they suck if you view them as movies. Think of them as really long episodes. Continuum was awesome 'cus Baal rules.

[Wraithicator]

if the suits at sci-fi/nbc aren't willing to put the movies in cinemas, says alot to me about their confidence in the shows.
I don't think it's so much that they aren't confident as it is that they're realistic. Stargate is a popular show, but it's not quite popular enough to be considered a "mainstream" thing...it probably made TPTB more money to release it straight to DVD. And we all know that money is really all that matters to them, as much as we hate to believe it.
And I think SGU will nosedive/belly flop/faceplant badly, but I'll watch it anyways. Even though it sounds like a Stargate version of Voyager. Been there, done that...they make it home in the end somehow. I just know it. Unless they pulled a Farscape...didn't Crichton decide not to go home at the end? I dunno. As for bringing back Atlantis...how? It's just not gonna happen, as much as I wish it would. Oh well, that's what direct-to-dvd movies and fanfiction are for.

[Robin K]

I like Vala, and I'm not afraid to say it. I LOVE Vala. She's hilarious. And I'm also not afraid to say that I LOVE the SG-1 movies - but they suck if you view them as movies. Think of them as really long episodes. Continuum was awesome 'cus Baal rules.


Vala was a great character in "Prometheus Unbound". I agree, she was hilarious.

But season 9, they changed her character drastically. THEN, they did the very UNREALISTIC thing of putting her on SG-1. And then shoved her down the throats of fans by making her (and Mitchell) the center of darned near every episode. By the third episode she was in she was grating on nerves.

The whole point at that time, for the large majority of Gaters, (especially those of us who have been fans since 1994) was that the show was changed so diametrically, with NO explanations whatsoever, that it wasn't even Stargate SG-1.

There are those who love Vala. That's great. Interestingly enough, so far she's never done a Stargate convention. Mostly because the majority of fans AREN'T so enamored of her. Don't get me wrong, Claudia Black is a great actress. Loved her and Ben Browder in Farscape. (Remember Sci-fi Friday nights? Stargate SG-1 and Farscape. THAT was Sci-fi!) But neither character was given a chance to earn the fans appreciation. They were just suddenly there, in front, and Sam, Daniel and Teal'c became nothing more than 'back up singers' who seemed to have suddenly gone stupid.

AC, NF, and others know that after the third episode of season 9 I predicted that TPTB had killed SG-1. Fans were leaving by the score. I gave up hope that the show would be 'rescued' by the end of that season. Even though the ratings were still higher (almost double) than what Atlantis had at the time, SG-1 was still axed. I think it was because the core fan base was gone. The writers, and Robert Cooper in particular, took the show in the wrong direction, and killed it. Too bad, it had such promise...could have been another "Dr. Who". Had Cam Mitchell (and Vala) been brought in differently, such as the way Jonas Quinn was brought to the team, and if they hadn't done the whole stupid Ori thing (haven't heard but a handful of fans who actually 'enjoyed' that storyline), the last two seasons would have been much better. Who knows, fans might even have been motivated enough to have actually saved it.

But, that's all just my opinion...:wink:

[Wraithicator]

No, I didn't really enjoy the whole Ori arc...and I really didn't like the impregnating Vala with an Ori in disguise thing. That was just...wrong. And wierd.
But I kinda disagree with the "backup singers" comparison. The original three were still very much a part of the team and the show. Having said that, I think I like Browder's character in Farscape a lot more than I like Mitchell. Crichton's almost exactly like him, just smarter and less...cocky.
And may I ask for clarification on how you think they "drastically changed" Vala? All characters evolve as time goes on.

[Robin K]

Consider the fact that both Crichton and Mitchell were fighter pilots, I suppose similarities are to be expected. (One of the things the suits were hoping for (according to an interview I read a couple of years back) with Browder and Black was that Farscape fans would pick up the slack in ratings that the fleeing Stargate fans were leaving. Guess it didn't happen.)

That whole Ori thing with Vala was so predictable I had everything but bits of the dialogue predicted. Not difficult to do, actually. The writers for season 9 and 10 didn't seem to have a lot of talent in building up suspense. You knew what the end was going to be by the first commercial break. (I stopped watching regularly after the third episode of season 9. Stopped watching period after the midseason break. Just wasn't worth my time to turn the TV on any longer...SG-1 was long gone.)

Yes, characters evolve over time. There was no 'evolution' with her, as she went from what she had been to a 'part' of the SGC in about two episodes. Vala started out as a thief and a liar. By the middle of season 9, she had earned enough 'trust' to be put on SG-1? What had she done to deserve it? Um...nada. She annoyed Daniel, darned near got him killed, but he'd vouch for her with Landry? Nah. Don't think so. She was host to a Goa'uld. Not just a Jaffa who carried a Prim'ta. For several years she had been a host. That alone would have made her one of the last choices for a position on any SG team. (Of course, that's thinking realistically, not in the Hollywood/Vancouver way.). She had an ulterior motive for everything she did in Prometheus and that whole thing with the bracelets. After that, she was just there, being...annoying. There was no logical reason for her to be at the SGC, let alone on SG-1. That has been the biggest complaint I've heard about her...there was no logical reason for her presence. Had she remained that thief/liar...they could have set it up so that SG-1 had to work with her, and it would have made sense, she could have been that hilarious and wonderfully manipulative character she had been in Prometheus Unbound, and I think her character would have been as popular as Ba'al.

Yes, Daniel, Sam and Teal'c were there, lots of 'back up' lines. They seemed to suddenly go stupid, as my Hubby pointed out, every week it was Cam or Vala who had that miraculous idea that got them out of the predicament they were in. The final episode was so...wrong...that Hubby and I still want our hour back. I have yet to talk to anyone who buys into the idea that the Asgard would commit mass suicide, as they did within the first ten minutes of that episode. Dumbest idea that those writers came up with, and given the content of the final two seasons, that's saying something.

It's interesting that MS and CB argued with the writers about that episode, arguing that given the 'relationship' between the two characters, a sudden 'love affair' wouldn't be plausible. It happened anyway, and no it wasn't believable, even given the 'circumstances'. If there was going to be a couple, it should have been Daniel and Sam, given that they cared for one another as friends for years.

Again, just my opinions. Most of the Stargate SG-1 fans I know quit watching the show at the end of season 5, when the writers killed off Daniel. (I thoroughly understood MS's reasons for leaving. Since the entire show was based on the friendship between Jack and Daniel, he had a legitimate complaint!) A few came back in season 7. Most of those were dropping off again by the end of season eight. I had friends from Australia, who see the show aired after the US does, email me, frantic that they had missed something. Nope, end of Season 8, an intact SG-1 with Jack at the helm of the SGC. First episode of season 9 was a MAJOR *** moment...and it NEVER got better. Had a friend in Germany tell me that if it got better, to let her know. It never did...of course, I stopped watching it. Hubby stopped watching the night that Cam, Sam and Teal'c walked down the ramp into the SGC, all smiles about accomplishing something, and not one word about the missing Daniel. That was NOT SG-1! How many episodes did we watch, and anguish through, while one member or another was missing, for whatever reason...and the others didn't rest until that team member was home? There was ONE LINE tossed in (at least that's how my best friend described it, as if it had been a literal afterthought) a couple of episodes later, about Daniel's absence. Hubby never watched it again.

It's been very interesting to me, the majority of the people who did like the final two seasons came to SG-1 late in the game. Many had/have never seen the original movie, and hadn't watched the first five seasons of the show prior to 9 and 10. There are those who hadn't watched the show at all before 9 and 10. To me, those people didn't have a clue what the 'real' show was about, and so didn't understand why so many 'original' Gaters were upset. There are 'original' Gaters who loved it. And those are the folks who are going to love anything with the Stargate name attached to it. I'm not of that variety. I fell in love with the show when it was first a movie. I was totally hooked by the middle of the 1st season, and have been a fan ever since. More of the premise and the characters than of the actors/writers/producers. To be honest, I couldn't care less who's associated with it. The ideas behind the show, the stories told, that's what I fell in love with. That ended abruptly for me with season 9. Not that that I was totally enamored with season 8. But at least it was still Stargate SG-1.

Now, I have all 10 seasons (and all the movies, original, Ark and Continuum) on DVD. One day I might even sit down and watch all of the final two seasons. As far as I know, neither of the final seasons has even been opened, like Hubby said, he suffered through them once.

Okay...that's probably more of an answer than you wanted...LOL!

[Lemuria]

I started with the original movie as well. I loved it and I had always deep down hoped that the rumor of another two movies starring Kurt Russell and James Spader would happen. I know I am in the minority here, but to me, Kurt Russell will always be Jack O'Neall.

I have been a huge fan of the show. I was not crazy about the last couple of seasons, but I did not hate them either. I liked Cam and Vala. I am going to go fangirl here so shoot me, :cool:, I adore Ben Browder so I did not mind Cam at all. I thought Vala was a hoot. RDA had left the show, so who was Daniel going to banter with? He's not going to with Sam or Teal'c. Personally, I thought the most boring season was season 8.

As far as the movies go, I liked Arc of Truth better than Continuum. At least Arc wrapped up some things (regardless of how weird the whole Ori thing was). Continuum was just boring.

But that is my opinion of everything and everyone has a right to their own opinion.


There are those who love Vala. That's great. Interestingly enough, so far she's never done a Stargate convention. Mostly because the majority of fans AREN'T so enamored of her.

To the best of my knowledge, she has not done a strictly Stargate con, but she was at Dragon Con in 2007 as a guest of the Stargate Track. And she did have long lines waiting on her. A friend of mine got her autograph for me and told me all about it and what a very nice person she was.

[Angelica Constantine]

I started with the original movie as well. I loved it and I had always deep down hoped that the rumor of another two movies starring Kurt Russell and James Spader would happen. I know I am in the minority here, but to me, Kurt Russell will always be Jack O'Neall.

I have been a huge fan of the show. I was not crazy about the last couple of seasons, but I did not hate them either. I liked Cam and Vala. I am going to go fangirl here so shoot me, :cool:, I adore Ben Browder so I did not mind Cam at all. I thought Vala was a hoot. RDA had left the show, so who was Daniel going to banter with? He's not going to with Sam or Teal'c. Personally, I thought the most boring season was season 8.

As far as the movies go, I liked Arc of Truth better than Continuum. At least Arc wrapped up some things (regardless of how weird the whole Ori thing was). Continuum was just boring.

But that is my opinion of everything and everyone has a right to their own opinion.



To the best of my knowledge, she has not done a strictly Stargate con, but she was at Dragon Con in 2007 as a guest of the Stargate Track. And she did have long lines waiting on her. A friend of mine got her autograph for me and told me all about it and what a very nice person she was.

Hehehe..nice. About time you said something. I don't care what anyone else says...

You go Girl!!! :yea:

I myself do not agree 100%, but no one ever will.
EVERYONE has a right to their own opinion.

Thank you Lem, for posting yours. :wave:

[Lemuria]

I had deleted what I was originally going to say.

[Robin K]

It' interesting, Lem, that you pointed out something that had never occurred to me...that Daniel needed someone to banter with, since Jack was gone.

I think it would have been more fun, and more believable, to have had Vala as a nemisis, the way she was in Prometheus Unbound (I thought she was awesome in that episode)...but circumstances, re the Ori, forced SG-1 to have to work with her. (Perhaps not every episode...her character was a bit much for every episode.) The banter would have been there, and the whole thing would have been more entertaining rather than grating.

I think my whole problem with Cam and Vala was the way they just 'appeared', with no explantion, and then seemed to just 'take over' the entire show. Add the fact that the episodes were actually pretty lame, the Ori storyline wasn't their best idea, and it was just too much.

I'll tell you, I was very disappointed when I heard that James Spader and Kurt Russel weren't going to be doing the series. I think Michael Shanks and RDA did a great job, and made the characters of the series their own.

I've heard rumors that the guys who did the original movie were going to make another one...don't know if JS and KR would be in it or not. That would be a movie I wouldn't want to miss!

And Lem, my Hubby said the same thing about the movies. He wasn't crazy about the Ori, but said at least the movie tried to tie up all the loose ends. He said that he thought for all the hype Continuum would have been better, but that it was just a longer episode.

The one thing about Continuum...Vala was EXCELLENT as a Goa'uld! (Hmm...maybe they should have left her a Goa'uld, and since the Goa'uld had been defeated, and SG-1 was still trying to get rid of Ba'al, she could have worked with them for that? THAT would have been some banter! :wink:)

AC is right, we're not ever going to agree on everything, and let's face it, that would be sooooooooooooo boring if we did!

You just stand right up and shout out your opinion, girlfriend, just like the rest of us! :wink:

[Wraithicator]

Longest post I've ever seen....more talking...even more talking...and finally, some more talking.
Okay...that's probably more of an answer than you wanted...LOL!

Nah, I like reading long posts. Umm...of course, now I don't know where to start responding. I guess I understand what you mean about Vala changing, and it would be better if she was a recurring character instead of a regular. But I didn't stop watching SG-1, and I definitely don't think it was dead.
As for how I started SG-1...it's kinda complicated. First I watched some Atlantis. And then I watched episode 1 of season 9. And then I watched more Atlantis. Then I watched Ark of Truth. Then I worked my way through the local video store's supply of Atlantis, and when I was done, I borrowed the first 9 seasons of SG-1 from my friend. And watched them. And then I watched the original movie.
And about the whole Daniel/Vala thing...he can barely stand her. It should have been Sam and Daniel...but I think that would have offended a lot of fans. I recieved a review for a Sam/Daniel fanfic where someone said it was like...incest. So Sam/Daniel couldn't have happened.
Lemuria, I liked Ark (it's a 'k' by the way...like Noah's ark or the ark of the covenant) of Truth better than Continuum too. It just seemed kind of flat, and by the end, the whole movie hadn't happened. They just hit the space-time continuum reset button and went for lunch with O'Neill.
I think my favorite seasons are about four to seven, right in the middle of the show where everything was going strong and no end was in sight. Although, I missed Daniel in season 6. Probably not as much as Robin did though...:)

[colonel Mitchell]

They cancelled two shows in two years theres no way in hell that fans are gonna stay loyal to the show much longer

[Robin K]

I shall attempt to curb my long windedness.

Wraithicator, you proved my point...you came to Stargate at the end, so you didn't see the problems. But I'm not going there again. Just super glad that you did find Stargate, and that you've joined us here!

Interesting view of Sam and Daniel.

I think my favorite seasons would be 3-5. I didn't miss Daniel, I didn't watch the show during season 6...LOL! I did watch the DVD, and my friends were right...the only episodes worth watching had Daniel in them. Not just because it was Daniel, but because the epidodes were about the members of SG-1. The Abyss was probably the best Jack and Daniel friendship episode made!

[Wraithicator]

Yes! I loved that episode. I did, however, enjoy Jonas Quinn as a character, but he was nowhere NEAR a replacement for Daniel. LOL my sister also refused to watch Season 6 when I told her Daniel died.
I'm glad to be accepted here, Robin. :) This has gotta be the most friendly forum I've ever been on, no exaggeration. Thanks, everybody!
I seem to be responding to Robin's post backwards...I really love SamDaniel pairings, but there was just no potential for it happening in the show. You don't put two characters (one of who has been interested in someone else for 9 years) who have been friends with no romantic interest at all and then say "Okay, they're together." It wouldn't have made the majority of the fans happy.
But I always think of the little scene at the end of the episode where Daniel is dying and Sam says she never told him how she really felt. I think the writers should have continued with that. But they didn't. And then on Moebius in the alternate timeline Sam lied and said she liked Daniel. Why couldn't she? It was stupid. It makes me angry...oh well.

[Lemuria]

Lemuria, I liked Ark (it's a 'k' by the way...like Noah's ark or the ark of the covenant) of Truth better than Continuum too.

Picky picky.:wink:

[Dracus]

Personally, I think Jonas Quinn was a WAY better character than Daniel ever was.

He was like the innocent, new set of eyes to the team. Sort of going back to what the SG Team used to be :P
His photographic memory was just cool.
His Personality was, in my opinion, a lot better than Daniels. Not sure how to explain it honestly...

I dislike how the fans RIPPED Jonas off the show and SHOVED Daniel back into it. Completley unfair to even give the guy a freakin season to prove himself! Instead you DJ fans just didnt even bother watching the season...

[Angelica Constantine]

Personally, I think Jonas Quinn was a WAY better character than Daniel ever was.

He was like the innocent, new set of eyes to the team. Sort of going back to what the SG Team used to be :P
His photographic memory was just cool.
His Personality was, in my opinion, a lot better than Daniels. Not sure how to explain it honestly...

I dislike how the fans RIPPED Jonas off the show and SHOVED Daniel back into it. Completley unfair to even give the guy a freakin season to prove himself! Instead you DJ fans just didnt even bother watching the season...

Oh, my, my, Dracus. Way to get your opinion out there. :wink:

I really did not mind Jonas. Little irritating at times, but so was Daniel on occasion.
Even though I am a DJ fan. I did watch the season. So, that parts a little harsh to group us all into that category.

[Lemuria]

I liked Jonas Quinn. I enjoyed season 6. There were a lot of good eps in it. I liked Daniel as well. I too wish they had kept him around a little longer. They did bring him back in one ep. I think he would have been good to keep around. A reoccurring character.

[Robin K]

Yes! I loved that episode. I did, however, enjoy Jonas Quinn as a character, but he was nowhere NEAR a replacement for Daniel. LOL my sister also refused to watch Season 6 when I told her Daniel died.
I'm glad to be accepted here, Robin. :) This has gotta be the most friendly forum I've ever been on, no exaggeration. Thanks, everybody!
I seem to be responding to Robin's post backwards...I really love SamDaniel pairings, but there was just no potential for it happening in the show. You don't put two characters (one of who has been interested in someone else for 9 years) who have been friends with no romantic interest at all and then say "Okay, they're together." It wouldn't have made the majority of the fans happy.
But I always think of the little scene at the end of the episode where Daniel is dying and Sam says she never told him how she really felt. I think the writers should have continued with that. But they didn't. And then on Moebius in the alternate timeline Sam lied and said she liked Daniel. Why couldn't she? It was stupid. It makes me angry...oh well.


Now that I've watched season 6, I can't say I'm fond of Jonas Quinn, but there were some good lines that were possible because he was the 'newbie'.

I feel the same way, Wraithicator! I tried a couple other forums, but sheesh...unless you were 'invited', and thus a part of the 'inner circle' there was no way of actually becoming involved in a conversation. Oh, you could post, but you were totally ignored. What I enjoy about this forum is we can disagree, and STILL be friends! *grin*

There were a couple of times that there was a bit of 'spark' between Daniel and Sam, but the writers refused to expound on it. I like Jack and Sam together though, I think there's just a 'fit' there that couldn't happen between Sam and Daniel. Had the episode been handled correctly, I think a good Sam/Daniel connection could have been made in episode 200. Does it bother anyone else that Sam and Cam and Teal'c were left 'single' while Vala was jumping Daniel's bones? As if those three weren't human, and didn't have feelings (Cam/Sam anyone?), and as if Sam would have wanted to live her life 'alone'. Or Cam and Teal'c for that matter. The entire episode was about Daniel and Vala. Hooking them up. That's all it was about...all it was for. (Thus the need for the movie to tie up the ends that the freaking series finale didn't!)

Oh, well. It's all history now, isn't it? And, given the track record of the writers and producers, I'm picking up that NO ONE is expecting anything good from Universe, and only a few stalwart fans will be watching.

[Robin K]

Personally, I think Jonas Quinn was a WAY better character than Daniel ever was.

He was like the innocent, new set of eyes to the team. Sort of going back to what the SG Team used to be :P
His photographic memory was just cool.
His Personality was, in my opinion, a lot better than Daniels. Not sure how to explain it honestly...

I dislike how the fans RIPPED Jonas off the show and SHOVED Daniel back into it. Completley unfair to even give the guy a freakin season to prove himself! Instead you DJ fans just didnt even bother watching the season...


To each their own, and I'm glad Jonas has someone to stand up for him!

For me and those of my 'circle', not watching the show had nothing to do with Jonas, and everything to do with the fact that the writers had forgotten what the premise of the show was. Daniel was brought back because the writers figured it out. Yes, the fans demanded his return. But not to what season 5 had been, but a return to the first four seasons when the show was about Daniel and Jack's friendship, and that team dynamic.

As for me not watching Universe, that has everything to do with using my remote control to let TPTB know that I am not amused to be considered a disposable commodity. What the suits have forgotten is that the fans decide if a show is a hit or not. You can have the best writers, best producers, and A-list actors, but without a good story, and without a fan base that cares about that story and those characters, you got nothin'. Basically, the fans are the boss. We watch the shows and buy the products advertised during those annoying commercial breaks. We buy the DVDs. We buy the movie tickets. WE dictate what we want to see. When the writers stayed true to the premise of the show that we as fans liked and enjoyed, all was good. When the comment was made, in regard to Universe, that the fans would get used to it and accept what was offered...this was one fan who was more than a little offended. When it was then stated that Universe was being written for a 'younger' audience, well, then, so be it. I will not waste my time on anything, I don't care whether it's Stargate related or not, that this particular group of writers and producers is associated with. That's my right. And to be honest, I really think their attitude is going to bring them some grief when the first ratings for Universe come out.

[Lemuria]

I don't know. The more I read about it the more it sounds like it is going to be nothing more than a 40 something year old colonel babysitting a bunch of twenty somethings aboard an ancient ship. If that is all there is to it, then it looks like I will only be watching Sanctuary on Friday nights.

[Angelica Constantine]

Aye, if that all it is....Then the ones that canceled Atlantis is gonna be kicking themselves so hard, there grandchildren are gonna feel it. LOL

[Lemuria]

That's pretty hard.:huh:

[Angelica Constantine]

ROTFLMAO

[Robin K]

And such an 'amusing' group of twentysomethings, don't you agree?

It seems to me that the suits are wanting to mimic some of the shows on other networks. I don't watch network television, so I couldn't tell you anything about the shows, I only know what I see in the adverts. To me, that's not being true to the entire premise of Stargate. But then, it's all about the money, baby. Screw the fans.

[Robin K]

Aye, if that all it is....Then the ones that canceled Atlantis is gonna be kicking themselves so hard, there grandchildren are gonna feel it. LOL


Wonder if that will only be because of the 'pay cuts' they'll all be facing when Universe flops?

[Angelica Constantine]

Yeah, but its the FANS that bring in the MONEY.

Guess they did not factor in that equation.

[Robin K]

Exactly. Pesky fans anyway.

[Dracus]

Well most fans apparently didnt give Jonas a chance D:

I would have rathered a new face.
On the other hand, when I did get what I wanted, I ended up with Vala...

[Robin K]

ROFLMBO! Yep, Dracus, gotta be careful what you wish for, you might get it!

Most fans who didn't give Jonas a chance weren't amused when the entire premise of the show was changed. Remember...the show was based on the unlikely friendship between Jack and Daniel. The Stargate was just the catalyst for that friendship. You'll notice that nothing like that ever developed between Jack and Jonas. In fact, having seen season 6, I'd say that Teal'c was probably the best friend Jonas had in the SGC. (But, now I'm just repeating myself, so I'll stop.)

[Ray-Ray]

i didnt really like Jonas much...he annoyed me

and i agree with most of the content in here...sheesh leave for 2 days and u ppl go crazy with the talking hahah

i like the stargate movie with the snow...that was cool

the ark of turth sucked! what a ****py way to wrap up a story!

[Dracus]

Haha Ray-Ray, im totally with you on the Ark of Truth. What a Half-Assed way to wrap up a half-assed story!

Robin, I disagree about the show being based on the friendship. The movie was more based on that, but the show.. Was more about the SG-1 Team and the **** they went through. While that was a definite story, I dont think it was really the underlying plot.
It was more Sci-Fi Tech, Morals, and sort of characters. The character development was not as great as it could have been... Took them like 8 seasons to really get things done :P

[Robin K]

Haha Ray-Ray, im totally with you on the Ark of Truth. What a Half-Assed way to wrap up a half-assed story!

Robin, I disagree about the show being based on the friendship. The movie was more based on that, but the show.. Was more about the SG-1 Team and the **** they went through. While that was a definite story, I dont think it was really the underlying plot.
It was more Sci-Fi Tech, Morals, and sort of characters. The character development was not as great as it could have been... Took them like 8 seasons to really get things done :P


Well, you can disagree, but that's what I, and my friends, and lot of other fans see and believe. The show wouldn't have gone anywhere without that friendship. And the characters were well developed by season two. More facets of their lives continued to be exposed, little by little, by what they they went through as the series progressed. Season 8 was a major waste...the writers were struggling, and losing their way then.

But, rather than argue the point, I'll just pull out of the conversation now, because I'm only repeating what I've said before! :wink:

[Wraithicator]

Well, any show is about it's main characters and the dynamics between them, but that's not all Stargate's about. And besides, Michael Shanks left after Season 5 because he didn't feel Daniel's character was being used enough, so at least from his point of view the show was no longer about Daniel. Oh, and just to be clear I just checked on Michael Shanks' official website and that is why he left.

[Robin K]

Yep, that's exactly why MS left the show. Which is why the fans were ticked in the first place, because we agreed with him. That dissatisfaction had been in play before he made his announcement. Had he chosen not to return (and from what I've heard, they literally had to beg him to return), the fans who 'returned' with him would have remained gone.

When TPTB caved to the will of the fans, it had little to do with caving to the desire to see Daniel return, and everything to do with rebuilding a dwindling fan base. Then the writers just continued to screw up at every turn (killing Janet? Come on, was that really necessary?)

No, the friendship wasn't all that Stargate SG-1 was about, but it WAS the foundation of the show. Without a good foundation, anything built is bound to fall. The team dynamic was important as well. But without the friendship of Daniel and Jack, that dynamic wouldn't have been there. JMHO.

[Wraithicator]

And here I thought (before I looked it up) that he left because his wife was pregnant...I was wondering why everyone got so worked up about it. :) You know, Corin Nemec was the one who really got ripped off. "Hey, we need you to replace a lead character. Nevermind, he wants/the fans want him back in." But you don't like Jonas, anyways...so that's a moot point I guess.
And you know something else? I thought your avatar was a caricature of Sam until I looked through the avatar list. It makes more sense that you, being the uber Daniel fan that you are, would have a Daniel avatar. Silly me.

[Dracus]

Wasnt a big reason jackson left was due to his coming child or somesuch?

[Robin K]

MS left the show because he felt his character wasn't being used to the extent he had been, and should have been. Teal'c and Daniel were pretty much just background characters while the writers focused on Sam and Jack. Now, I like the Sam and Jack relationship. However, that wasn't what Stargate was about/should have been about. The team dynamic that had been built in the first two seasons, with Jack and Daniel's friendship as the foundation for that dynamic, was totally ignored.

MS felt that he could do better going back into the theater and working on other projects if Daniel Jackson was only going to be on in one scene per episode. Can't say that I blame him.

That's why he left the show.

[Wraithicator]

Okay, no offense Robin...but who are you to say what Stargate should have been about? It's kind of up to the writers, isn't it? But I guess you're a fan whose been watching from the beginning and knows what worked in the first couple of seasons. I don't mean any disrespect whatsoever...it's weird, you'd think that the writers would be more in tune with what the fans want. But I guess writers are fans in a way, which means that the entire series is...fanfiction, honestly. So the show becomes whatever the writers feel it should be. Which kinda sucks for the other fans. Also, of course you feel the show should be all about Danny, he's your favorite character. I think the show should have been more about Carter - her plotlines got weak too. It's all a matter of perspective, I guess. Hey, if you don't like the way the show turned out, you could always write some fanf...oh, right. You did that. :)

[Robin K]

No offense taken, Wraithicator...but no, it wasn't totally up to the writers. What the fans liked should have been taken into consideration as well. And I'm a fan who has every right to my opinion...and I'm in very good company, btw. Yep, I've been watching since Stargate was just a movie...LOL! I watched as things changed, some for the betterment of the show, far too many changes to the detriment of the show. No offense at all to you, and the others who are 'latecomers' to the Stargate world...but you don't have a clue about what the fans saw, wanted, endured...because you weren't there. Sitting and watching DVD's 'after the fact' is in no way the same as watching each week, reading everything about the show that was put out, reading interviews with the actors...actually investing time each week...not when it was the most convenient for us, but when the show was aired. You haven't made that investment, haven't been there from the beginning. Didn't watch the show you loved slowly destroyed. I did. That gives me every right to be angry about what happened. Also gives me a clue to what other fans (with whom I've communicated in many ways, many times, many places) think/feel. Gives me the right to say that the writers screwed up.

DIL and I were talking about this very thing the other night...how writers will start out with a great idea for a show. Great premise, awesome characters, interesting storylines. They hook the fans, and as soon as that fan base is clamoring for more, the writers either go stupid, get too arrogant, or something...because they start changing the very things that made the show popular in the first place.

I dunno, I have the feeling it all comes back to the money. Money talks. So when the suits want 'change' or want to follow the latest news headlines or what some other successful show is doing, regardless of what was working for 'their' show, the writers oblige.

I just keep remembering what Data told Capt. Picard:

"Television was a form of entertainment that did not last much past the 21st century."

Let's see, we can buy our favorite shows/seasons on DVD. Don't have to pick up the ones we don't like. We can watch the shows at our leisure with TiVo and on the internet. There are actually internet shows that are better than what's on television. (I still haven't managed to catch Sanctuary on TV yet...but son is disappointed in the 'change over'. He said you can tell it has to pass far too many censors. Maybe I wont' bother...) Writers/producers continue to write good shows, only to turn around and completely lose their way...Networks go completely stupid (have any of you read the comments about Sci-fi's new show...warehouse something? Viewers are NOT impressed (I watched the trailer, wasn't impressed at all.) Seems that Sci-fi is losing viewers by the droves at this point in time. Wonder why? Wrestling, anyone?) It's as if the entire industry has become so arrogant, so certain that they (meaning the suits and the critics who seem to decide what the viewers should/shouldn't like...and I have yet to agree with any of them!) are determined to shove down our throats what we don't want. Guess they forgot one very important thing...we control the on/off buttons. Advertisers haven't forgotten that fact!

Yep, I'd say that's pretty prophetic. Wonder if television will even make it to the middle of the 21st century?

[Wraithicator]

Alright, I understand that shows shouldn't be completely up to the writers. But it's the sad reality of the situation - writers just don't care. Like you said, it's all about money. Although, if you had been in the writer's position, don't you think the show would have gone the way you wanted it to go? Writers can't please everyone, unfortunately. Also, it's just as dissapointing to watch something on DVD and want it to go a certain way only to have your hopes gone as it is to watch it on TV. I know because I've done both. Not with SG-1, but I did catch up to Atlantis and watched the last few seasons pretty much in real time. I used the internet, but I still watched them as they were released. I know what it's like to be disappointed - Atlantis has it's share of writing stupidity. Like "Vegas"...SG-1 had it's share of alternate universe episodes, but even they would never write one that awful and irrelevant. They turned Sheppard into a loser.
I agree with what you're saying, writers and producers just don't get it. People are better off making their own show or writing fanfiction or something. It's less frustrating. The one thing I disagree with is that SG-1 was "destroyed." It's just my opinion, but watching the show from the beginning and watching the characters evolve and change might be quicker from a DVD, but it's the same show. There's no need to argue about our respective opinions about SG-1's final seasons, I think we kinda covered that a while ago. :D
Holy off-topic threads, Batman!

[Robin K]

The only other comment I'll make is this...IF I had been a writer on the show (or any other, for that matter!) I hope I would have the integrity to remain true to the original premise, allowing for 'natural' growth and evolution, while remembering the entire time that it's the fans who make a hit show. Keeping the fans happy keeps a show alive. (Dr. Who, anyone???????)